On this episode of the IoT For All Podcast, Silicon Labs’ President and CEO, Matt Johnson, discusses the biggest growth opportunities in IoT. The podcast opens up with Matt giving background about him and his company before talking about opportunities he sees in the IoT industry. Matt and Ryan then discuss sectors that heavily adopt IoT and the growth of IoT in the smart home space. They wrap up the episode with a high-level conversation around protocols in the industry and what companies need to consider when beginning their adoption journey.
Matt Johnson serves as President and CEO of Silicon Labs, a leader in secure, intelligent wireless technology for a more connected world. Before becoming CEO, Matt led the company’s Internet of Things (IoT) business unit through a period of accelerating growth and industry leadership. Silicon Labs is now solely focused on technology solutions to enable smart, connected devices, transforming industries, growing economies, and improving lives and our environment. Before joining Silicon Labs, Matt held leadership positions at NXP, Freescale, and Fairchild Semiconductor. Matt is dedicated to strong company culture, innovative product development, and operational excellence. He holds a B.S. in Electrical Engineering Technology from the University of Maine and has completed executive programs at Harvard Business School and Stanford University. Matt currently serves on the boards of Dell Children’s Medical Center Foundation, the Global Semiconductor Alliance, and the Semiconductor Industry Association.
Interested in connecting with Matt? Reach out on Linkedin!
About Silicon Labs
Silicon Labs is a leader in secure, intelligent wireless technology for a more connected world. Our integrated hardware and software platform, intuitive development tools, unmatched ecosystem, and robust support make us an ideal long-term partner in building advanced industrial, commercial, home, and life applications. They make it easy for developers to solve complex wireless challenges throughout the product lifecycle and get to market quickly with innovative solutions that transform industries, grow economies and improve lives.
Key Questions and Topics from this Episode:
(02:14) Introduction to Matt and Silicon Labs
(3:49) Importance of the edge in IoT
(5:58) Biggest opportunities in IoT
(10:52) Industries adopting IoT right now
(12:30) The smart home space
(15:38) Importance of protocols in IoT
(20:47) The adoption journey
(25:50) Focusing solely on IoT
Transcript:
– [Voice Over] You are listening to the IoT For All Media Network.
– [Ryan] Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the IoT For All Podcast. The number one resource and publication for IoT. If you are watching this video on YouTube, we would really appreciate it if you would give this video a like and subscribe to our channel. If you’re listening to this on a podcast directory somewhere please feel free to subscribe so you get the latest episodes as soon as they become available. On today’s episode, we have Matt Johnson, the President and CEO of Silicon Labs. They are a leader in secure, intelligent wireless technologies, helping build a more connected world. If you’re familiar with IoT For All at all Silicon Labs is a very frequent contributor and member of our community. So I think you’ll get a lot of value outta this episode. We talk about the biggest growth potential areas for IoT in the coming years. What is matter, if you’ve heard of matter and how that’s kind of playing a role in the space or will be playing a role once it’s kind of released. That is something that we talk a good bit about as well. We talk about what it means to be open and have more of a standardized kind of offering out in the market from an industry perspective. We also talk about the security elements of IoT and we then break down kind of market being very competitive and how we see people or I guess, companies growing to all being adopters of IoT and kind of how that works, how we see that evolving and where that’s kind of coming from. Very good episode, I think you’ll get a lot of value out of this one, particularly, when we actually, we start off talking a little bit more about use cases in the homes. So a lot of you who consumers, smart homes, I think you’ll find a lot of entertainment and enjoyment out of learning more about smart home space, which then ties to that matter discussion, which I mentioned a second ago. So, please I really find, I think you’ll find a lot of value to this episode, and I hope you enjoyed this episode. But before we get into that, if any of you out there are looking to enter the fast growing and profitable IoT market, but don’t know where to start, check out our sponsor, Leverege. Leverege’s a IoT solutions, development platform provides everything you need to create turnkey IoT products that you can white label and resell under your own brand. To learn more, go to iotchangeseverything.com that’s iotchangeseverything.com. And without further ado, please enjoy this episode of the IoT For All Podcast. Welcome Matt to the IoT For All Podcast. Thanks for being here this week.
– [Matt] Thanks Ryan, I’m excited to be here and looking forward to talking about this.
– [Ryan] Absolutely. Yeah, I’ve been very excited about this episode ever since we got it scheduled. So, I’m glad you’re here and I’d love it if you could just kick this off by giving a quick introduction about yourself to our audience.
– [Matt] Oh sure, my name’s Matt Johnson. I’m the President and CEO here at Silicon Labs. And I have been in this role now since the start of the year. And prior to that, I ran our IoT business for years at Silicon Labs.
– [Ryan] Tell us a little bit more about Silicon Labs as a whole. So you were running the IoT side, now you’re kind of overseeing all of it. What areas do you all kind of play in and what’s your general role in the industry?
– [Matt] Sure, so for those who are not familiar with Silicon Labs, we’re a semiconductor company, which historically meant chips, but now it means chips and software and tools. And that’s what we do and where we focus that is specifically, for wireless connectivity for the edge. That is the easiest way to think about what we do. And to help make that real, we provide the complete solution. If you had a device that needed connectivity, compute, security, we could provide a wireless SOC that provides all of that for our customers. So oftentimes in a lot of applications, we’re the only or the largest piece of Silicon for those applications, because we provide that all completely integrated.
– [Ryan] Talk to our audience a little bit about the edge component when it comes IoT and kind of the power and the importance, and even like the opportunity that focusing more on the edge has in the IoT space.
– [Matt] Sure. So, we’re biased, this is all we do. We’re 100% focused on the IoT, so I need to preface it with that. But we see the most exciting and incredible opportunity at the IoT edge. Maybe think of it a couple ways. First of all, just in terms of the quantity of devices. Our industry has never seen anything like the volume today and in the future that connected devices at the edge represents. So, think today, maybe 10 or 15 billion units a year. And then if you go out into the future, a decade from now, you’re talking 50, 60, 70 billion units per year of potential devices. There’s nothing that we’ve ever seen in our industry like that. If you look at, other transformational markets, PCs, handsets, automotive, they’re just dwarfed by the orders of magnitude, larger quantity of units. But that’s just something that we try to wrestle with in terms of addressing and scaling to meet the space. I think the most exciting piece is the qualitative side of this in terms of think of societal impact, environmental impact, economic impact of all these devices, that’s where you get into some really, I think meaningful work and game-changing opportunities, whether it’s literally, improving the quality of life for people or improving the environmental impact or sustainability in multiple areas. Or I think of things like industry 4.0 on the fourth industrial revolution, they’re all underpinned by being able to connect devices, digitize devices at the edge and that’s where we play. So, it’s exciting.
– [Ryan] Absolutely. Yeah, it’s super interesting. Kind of to think about all the potential in the industry. And one thing I did wanna ask you is this is kind of a two-part question. One is, kind of where you see the biggest growth potential in IoT in the coming years, but this also ties into kind of the commitment I know you all have made to really be all in on the IoT side, especially, this year kind of going forward. So tell me a little bit about that decision and how that plays into how you all see or where you all see the biggest growth potential in the space as it stands now and kind of moving forward.
– [Matt] So, kind of the second part is kind of why did we go all in and 100% focus on this space? Is that, yeah.
– [Ryan] Correct, yep.
– [Matt] So, I’ll work my way back.
– [Ryan] Yeah.
– [Matt] So, if the why is simply put the, what I was mentioning before in terms of the size of the opportunity, quantitative and qualitative just is unlike anything we’ve ever seen. And it’s also a market that’s unlike any other. The complexity, diffusion, diversity, there’s not one application, there’s thousands of applications, hundreds of ecosystems, tens of thousands of customers. So for us to, seriously, maximize the opportunity, we felt that 100% focus was the only way that we’d really maximize the potential and achieve our true potential in terms of impact and really helping this space scale. So, we decided, which is unusual in our space, instead of trying to acquire more companies, we actually, divested a big piece of our company and sold everything that was unrelated to IoT wireless so we could 100% focus on this base. Because easy way to say it, massive growth potential and we’re really well positioned. And we wanted to focus on that and nothing else, because literally none of us have ever seen an opportunity or position like this. And we wanted to go for it. In terms of your other question on, what are the biggest growth spaces, areas, if you step back there is not one, oh, this is the super application that’s driving the space. We participate in multiple market segments, home and consumer type applications, life and healthcare, industrial, commercial, retail, they’re all growing, at a very fast pace. And if you look at all the different technologies we support, whether it’s wifi, Bluetooth, Zigbee, Z-wave, Thread. They’re all growing very fast. So, the first level of that is there’s not one application or technology that’s really driving this. I think what we are getting to though is a time, a place and a market where the technology has it, let’s just call it reached a maturity that allows for easier adoption and scalability of the industry. Which is allowing people to implement and develop faster. And we’re finding what I’d call really meaningful use cases and benefits of adoption of the technology that are accelerating adoption. So, easy examples just to make it real, think of healthcare during the pandemic we saw an explosion of telehealth and people needing to connect, not only when they’re in a telehealth visit, but they wanna have your pulse oximeter, your blood pressure, your heart rate, temperature, all of that connected to your smart device. So you can share that with your doctor. Those things are long-term trends that don’t go away. Another one is in industrial. If you look at in the industrial space, it’s always been exploring and doing let’s just call it prototyping and beta testing of different IoT implementations. And what we’ve seen over the last few years is kind of a maturity of the technology to that it can be implemented in a useful, meaningful way and in an efficient way. And the return on investment is there and pretty short, 9, 12 month type timeframes. So that is driving explosive adoption and growth as well because the returns are good. It pays back and companies not only want that return, but they also wanna make sure that they remain competitive as others in the industry are adopting these technologies. So, those are just a couple examples where we see that really explosive growth. So, I wouldn’t say it’s one thing, but if you wanted to get to big top level, the technology and the ease of use, and the use cases and benefits are really starting to hit a, let’s just call it, tipping point that is causing this acceleration.
– [Ryan] And regarding those use cases and applications, have you seen any particular industry kind of explode more than others or seen more trends in one industry versus another kind of adopt IoT more aggressively recently, as opposed to maybe how things have been, maybe particularly as it relates to one example, potentially like the industrial space as opposed to another space. Is there any that kind of stand out to you?
– [Matt] I’d say like, easy way to think of it is, they are all growing remarkably fast. Usually, traditionally, you’ll see one up or down or others going faster than others. But to answer your question, for a while we saw a really, really fast adoption in the home, in the smart home. Which is the one I think most of us know and love, and that continues. But I’d say, if you look at commercial, you definitely see a lot more think of smart cities. Or in retail, just the ability to improve the shopper user experience that adoption is going very quickly. And we already talked about industrial where it’s really about the economics and the ROI hitting a tipping point. And that’s driving that fast adoption. And I should point out, I don’t see any of these as one or two-year phenomena. These are multi-decade phenomena that have tremendous upside potential. Industrial is arguably, 20 to 25% adopted or less. So there’s tremendous growth that’s still available there.
– [Ryan] Yeah, and you mentioned the smart home space. Anything surprising kind of happening on that front that you all kind of noticed or kind of been keeping an eye on.
– [Matt] Matter.
– [Ryan] Okay.
– [Matt] I think matter is surprising in one sense that we’re talking about an industry that a lot of the companies involved in driving matter and supporting matter are competitors.
– [Ryan] Can you tell our audience just quickly what matter is, I know it’s been discussed, but just wanna make sure they know.
– [Matt] Yeah, so long story short, matter is a industry standard that is intended to accelerate the adoption of smart-connected devices. And the way that’s being done is by providing a standard that drives easier use, easier adoption, easier connectivity, at the consumer and developer level. So, if you step back and think, historically it’s been, there’s all these different technologies and ecosystems, which one works with which. If I buy something from Apple, will it work with something from Google? Will it work with something from Amazon? If I buy this wireless technology, will it work with that one and the other one? And if you go to, whether it’s a website or a Big Box store, it can get confusing very quickly. Or as a developer trying to accommodate all this. Matter is the industry getting aligned that everyone can’t be going at it on their own. It needs to be a consolidated, orchestrated effort if we’re gonna provide that experience and that improvement for developers and consumers to allow them to use these technologies quickly, easier, and with more confidence. So, matter was born out of the Zigbee alliance, which we renamed to the CSA Alliance. And the big surprise in the home is companies that, whether it’s Google or Amazon or Samsung or Apple who historically competed and they still do have gotten together with the semiconductor companies who also compete against each other. And said, we’ve all tried this on our own, and we’re seeing some level of success, but not the level of adoption for the industry that is transformational in that we all know, want and need. And the only way we’re gonna get there is if we work together to provide a construct to overlay to make it easier for these technologies to work together, to get set up, to develop and get into the marketplace with less resistance. So, that’s matter. And what that represents, I think is remarkable. I think remarkable for all these companies to be working together for all of us to agree that this is worth the effort, which is not trivial. And I think, to answer your question, that’s a massive development in the smart home and beyond the smart home that I don’t think the industry fully appreciates yet how impactful this will be over time.
– [Ryan] Yeah, I think it’s important to also this kind of brings up another point is just around the value and importance that the different protocols in IoT make in the success, the ability to help adoption grow and so forth. Can you talk a little bit more about just kind of that piece and the importance of protocols in IoT, and you can also maybe touch on the importance of being open, standardized and how that all plays into the security aspect as well.
– [Matt] Wow, yeah. I’m gonna write this down ’cause you just hit like three huge ones. So yeah, just stepping back for if anyone’s not familiar, that it is shocking how many let’s call it different ecosystems of connectivity there are out there and different wireless technologies there are out there and most of these wireless technologies do not work together. So, easy ways to think about it. Zigbee doesn’t work with Z-Wave, doesn’t work with Bluetooth, doesn’t work with Wi-Fi, yet they all exist for a reason. They all have their just to be blunt pros and cons and they all bring a value towards making the IoT successful. So, we took a different stance on this than most companies years ago. We decided our focus is on making the IoT successful. It’s not about making a technology successful. Because what we found and can tend to happen is if you have one technology that you really push it, you push it as the answer for everything. And that’s not the reality of the way it works. If you think of a smartphone, smartphone has many different wireless technologies. Whether it’s cellular or Wi-Fi or Bluetooth or GPS, you name it. And they each bring a unique value and capability, the IoT is no different. An IoT application requires multiple wireless technologies and we believe to make the IoT succeed there’s tremendous power in supporting them all and allowing them not only to work well, but to work well together and integrate these technologies. So, that’s why we focused on having more breadth in depth in this space than anyone else, because we believe that one technology’s not the answer. It’s getting all these technologies to work well and work well together, which by the way, that’s what matter’s doing. It’s pulling technologies like 50.4, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and allowing them to work extremely well together and seamlessly. So, that’s the first piece is, it’s really critical to understand that all these technologies play a role. And by the way, there’s a ton of proprietary ones out there too that do their own thing for good reasons and they help our space as well. You asked about open. Open’s really important. If you study the history of our space or industry, there’s not many closed or proprietary standards that really went mainstream and helped the consumer and helped the industry. And we’re big believers in that. You look at the success of Wi-Fi or Bluetooth as an example. This is why our approach is to make things open. Easy examples that I can give you. We used to have a thread technology that was based on a proprietary stack for the wireless interface. We decided to go open and we now support open thread. Another good one is Z-Wave. Z-Wave was for lack of a better term, proprietary, closed ecosystem that only Silicon Labs owned. We acquired the company, the technology, and people thought we were crazy when we said, guess what? We’re making this an industry standard. We’re opening it up. We allow people to create parts that are alternate sources that compete with us. And we did that because we really believe in our core is that if you really want the IoT to succeed and you’re really putting the success of the industry first, open is what will win and open is a path to making the biggest impact. So, that’s our philosophy around open standards. When you asked around security. Can’t emphasize enough how important it is that our industry embraces security, not as a feature, but at the foundational elemental level that the experience and use of this technology is secure. Again, if the goal is to make the IoT reach its maximum potential, people have to trust it. And if there’s not trust, we’re not gonna reach that potential. That’s why we’ve been leaning in on this for literally years because we see this as kind of a cornerstone for our industry, not a feature or an additional thing that you do after the fact. It’s gotta be integral, just like quality is, security needs to be foundational.
– [Ryan[ Absolutely, no, that was all very, very well said. I appreciate you kind of entertaining that long-winded question I had.
– [Matt] I tried to get to all the points,
– [Ryan] But no you did, it was fantastic. I did wanna ask kind of one question as we start to wrap up here, it’s more of a question for our audience and we get asked this a decent amount and it’s looking at the market from an adopter standpoint. And a lot of people see different IoT offerings, different platforms, different solutions, different tools, lots of different technology. If I’m looking at this from an adopter standpoint, say let’s say a developer standpoint within an organization, what should I be considering when I’m evaluating all the different components of an IoT solution, all the different options there. And what would you say are some of the biggest challenges that they’re gonna have to be thinking about to overcome in that adoption journey?
– [Matt] And are you thinking about someone who’s just adopting today, now or in the future?
– [Ryan] I’d say now, I’d say now timeframe, just because it’s gonna be more relevant to our listeners to say, hey look, I’m convinced I want to adopt IoT. I have my team looking into it. What should they be thinking about? How should they be evaluating the different pieces that play into it? Because there’s so many options, whether it’s on the hardware side, the software side, the connectivity side, the standards obviously play into like, we’ve been talking about. How do you navigate that or how should they be thinking about navigating that I should actually say.
– [Matt] It’s a great question. And honestly, I think it’s a difficult time to be a developer in our space because it’s incredibly exciting, all the growth and potential, but it’s also, there’s a lot in flux. And that’s why I asked today or in the future. So, let’s be specific and I’ll answer the question. I would make sure that one, we talked about the importance of open. We talked about the importance of security. Multi-protocol, making sure that you’re not trying to address the space with one protocol. It generally doesn’t work that way. So, making sure that you have that platform approach that gives you the ability to adjust across as the industry evolves. Future proofness or upgradeability, I think matters tremendously. So, let me be specific. If you’re a developer in consumer, odds are you wanna support matter? And odds are you wanna support sidewalk from Amazon. However, neither is available as you know a final solution today. So what do you do? And that’s, I think a very important way to think of it. What we wanna provide is a solution that gives a platform for our customers to navigate this and be futureproof. And specifically, as matter works to be finalized and rolled out they have confidence their solution’s gonna work within that. And be backward compatible, with Zigbee and Z-Wave. We’re not trying to deprecate all the existing base out there. That’ll ruin the experience of the industry. We wanna make sure that whatever you pick going forward also works with what is already out there. And you need to make sure you have that flexibility to support standards like Sidewalk as they evolve. And you need that ability to make sure your security updates and evolves as you go. So, if you were trying to summarize it in a nutshell, think of platform approach, not point solution, to give you flexibility, to navigate the future. And then think about all the upgradeability and adaptability you wanna have across open standards, multiple protocols, being able to support different ecosystems, like matter and Sidewalk and the upgradeability. So it’s really platform approach and future proofness is the way I would think about it ’cause I think that gives you the best ability to not only navigate the space as it keeps growing and evolving, but it also gives you the tools to adapt and give your end customers the best experience possible and be as competitive as possible. So hopefully, that helps.
– [Ryan] Yeah, no, absolutely it does. I think it’s a very interesting conversation in general, just any whatever stage you’re in, in the adoption journey, there’s always lots of choices. And being able to kind of read between or decipher between the different types of connectivity, hardware, platform, everything that kind of comes with an IoT solution. The nice thing I think people need to keep in mind is that having choices allows you to get to more of a perfect fit for your end solution. At the end of the day is just working with an organization or doing the research to make the right informed decision so that you pick the components that are necessary to solve your problem. And the more they understand the better. And I think that kind of comes with working with organizations who really know their stuff, which does tie into kind of my final question here is as we think about Silicon Labs and the focus you all have now put on going all in on IoT, what does that next kind of era look like for you all being more solely focused on IoT wireless and kind of this world as opposed to kind of spreading yourselves across?
– [Matt] So yeah, it’s exciting. So, maybe the easiest way to answer that is, is break it into different audiences, starting with our employees who are most important. I think it’s a really exciting time for our employees because they see the impact of what they’re doing and they see the success of all their hard work and that’s awesome, that’s exciting. So, being able to see the impact and see that they’re making a difference is huge. And I think that 100% focus and momentum we have right now is huge for them. For our customers, I think it manifests itself as you know someone you can trust that isn’t doing this as a side show, isn’t trying to take other technology and push it in there. Or they might not stay the course in this space. We’ve been in this space for literally 15 years now, and this is all we do now. So, a quick story to help make that real. I remember three or four years ago being in a customer meeting and we had a bunch of our product managers in the meeting and a customer said, hey, there’s so many technologies. I don’t know how to pick which one, which one? And literally, like five people at the same time raised their hand and said, oh, I’ve got the best one. And that’s when we realized we needed to change the way we engaged the market. So we switched to application segment focused. So, we could be an unbiased advisor and council for our customers and say, look, our goal is to be the best at light bulbs or be the best at, in the home for these applications. And because of that, we have all these technologies, but these are the pros and cons. This is what we’d recommend. So, that focus will continue to benefit our customers and developers because it’s the only thing we do. We’re working to truly make sure that we’re the best at it and make the IoT succeed. And then the last thing is, I think it’s a benefit globally for all the reasons I mentioned. If the IoT succeeds, it really does make the world a better place at multiple levels. And that’s incredibly exciting. And I think all of us want that to happen and we’re committed to doing that. It’s the only thing we’re focused on now.
– [Ryan] And I love that. That sounds it’s a very kind of smart decision. I think of what you all have made to kind of focus on this, given how much of an opportunity there is in this industry. And you mentioned kind of being more of an unbiased resource for people that I think carries a ton of weight in the industry, ’cause there’s so many companies out there right now who are very focused on just pushing their own thing, even if it’s not the right fit for solutions. And that’s only going to lead to poor experiences with IoT, less adoption. And then that just hurts the industry as a whole. And that’s not how anybody wins. This industry needs companies working together, solutions to be deployed, scaled and companies to see success, to really help build up the adoption across the industry. And that’s not gonna help if people aren’t really kind of advising the companies that they’re working with to the best decision possible. So, totally agree on kind of all those fronts. For our audience out there and wanting to learn more and get a better sense of what you all are doing, stay in touch. What’s the best way to do that?
– [Matt] So, if you already work with us and you’re just looking to reconnect, for sure we have our existing connections. If you’re not familiar with the company, please visit us and reach out on the website at www.silabs.com. That’s an easy way in and we’d love to connect and talk to anyone who’s interested in this space. What we see is without exaggeration, we have hundreds and hundreds every month of new people saying, I’m awesome at this, but which is their thing. But I wanna provide wireless connectivity to the cloud or to a mobile device. How do I do that?
– [Ryan] That’s right.
– [Matt] We’re great at that. The other great option and event for people is works with. Every year, we do a developer conference where we pull together the industry on average 6, 7, 8,000 developers. And really sit back and say, okay, here you are, you wanna get here. What are all the tools that you need to get there? And we have the major ecosystem leads there as well. Google’s there, Amazon’s there, you name it, to try to make it as easy as possible to get from A to B. And that event is unlike any other in the industry because, it keeps getting bigger every year. So, that’s the other place I’d recommend to visit?
– [Ryan] Fantastic. Well, Matt, this has been a great conversation. I really appreciate your time. The insights you shared are fantastic. I think our audience is gonna get a ton of value out of this. I’d love to have you back at some point to kind of talk about things potentially, later on this year. See how things are going on your end. Talk about matter, talk about just kind of the evolution of the industry and the growth we’re seeing. So, thanks again for your time. Really appreciate it.
– [Matt] Anytime, really enjoyed it. Be happy to come back and I really wanna get a closer look at some of those toys behind you, but we’ll do that another time.
– [Ryan] Oh yeah. Yeah, we got a lot of stuff and I’ve had some people on the show ask like, oh, do you just go back behind a Best Buy and pull some boxes outta the dumpster? I said, no, these are actually, there’s things actually in the boxes. We have another room outside of the studio with more stuff that’s been sent to us to play with, test. So we’re gonna get into some consumer stuff just on the video side. Just to talk about the product development side of, or bringing a product to life and talk more about them behind the scenes of IoT consumer products, not so much like reviewing and promoting ’em directly. More of just like, hey, there are a lot of learnings in bringing like for instance, this dog collar, building this has a device. A smart device, bringing it to market. A lot of learnings I’m sure it can be translated over to the companies that build solutions and hardware for the enterprise and commercial. So, it’s just the end user that differs.
– [Matt] That’s awesome.
– [Ryan] So yeah, a lot of fun stuff. But again, thanks so much for your time. We’d love to have you back and look forward doing more in the future.
– [Matt] Great, thank you much.
– [Ryan] All right, everyone. Thanks again for watching that episode of the IoT For All Podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please click the thumbs up button, subscribe to our channel and be sure to hit the bell notifications. So you get the latest episodes as soon as it become available. Other than that, thanks again for watching and we’ll see you next time.
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